MARK Hello, good morning everybody and welcome, welcome to Mind Monkeys. Welcome to Mind Monkeys, what a wonderful morning we're going to have. Thank you for joining us to, in Mind Monkeys welcome, Bananas Optional. This is the regular LinkedIn live stream that we do where we name, explain and reframe the most common hesitations for getting in the way of the successes we deserve. I'm Mark, I'm your host as we embark on raw, honest, irreverent and important conversations designed to normalise the fears that we each face at work and at play. In order to help you, our dear listener, our amazing listener, reframe the perspective around those stories that you've created for yourselves that have been feeding those monkeys. Now I'm just making sure that we are live, hopefully we are live, but I would very much like to welcome my amazing guest for this month's episode, which is the gorgeous Daniela Brunetto. Daniela is, let me tell you a little bit about him before we get going, Daniela is a career coach and consultant who helps professionals that are either seeking or adapting to changes in their careers and with more than 10 years experience in international organisations in Brussels, Daniela helps people who feel stuck, lost or on the verge of burnout find a job or career that finally fits them and not vice versa. Daniela, Dani, am I okay to call you Dani? Is that still good? DANIELE Yes, please. It's going to be the easiest thing to do. Thank you for this lovely introduction. Ah, you're very welcome. How are you doing? You've had an interesting week already. I've had an interesting week already, that's true. And normally I would be in a different place with a different background and set up, but I'm actually in Madrid visiting my cousin just for the weekend. So you see a little bit of a different setup for my usual calls and it's sunny, which is not at the moment in Brussels. So I'm very happy to escape. MARK Sunny is good. Sunny is good. We had gales last night. I was driving back very late and it was horrendous. So yes, a bit of sunshine does the world of good. Thank you anyway. Thank you for dialling in. It's just a delight to have this conversation with you. I know we're going to have a lot of fun. Let's begin as I begin with all of these kind of episodes and invite you to meet the monkeys. So again, for our listener out there, just to sort of reaffirm that when we say mind monkeys, we're talking about those limiting beliefs, those little whispers inside our own heads that kind of get in our own way. And in your work as a sort of consultant career coach, what would you say are the most common or frequent monkeys that kind of pop up and make themselves known to either you or even to the people that you serve? DANIELE I'm going to be, let's say, I'm going to use one of the most common in my clients, but also one that was the same for me when I decided to become a coach and is something that you know very well as well, which is the question, am I good enough? MARK Yeah. DANIELE It's a recurrent question that I get from clients and it's something that limits them from the options and the possibilities they can see in applying some changes in their current job or changing completely the job or career in general. And I have the same problem. When I decided to become a coach after my burnout, basically reigniting what has always been my interest in helping people and supporting them in their own journey, then I realised, but would I be enough? I've never done this. And then I realised, actually, I had already all the knowledge that I wanted and all the capacity that I fulfilled. And for those that I didn't have, I just studied for a year and I knew that I could learn just focussing on that with the skills that were needed in order to become a coach. So even just with this little idea, this little story, I mean, there's more, of course, with my journey, but even just with this and what happens with my clients when they decide, oh, maybe I want to change my job or career. But the first hesitation is always, will I be good enough? I've invested so much, usual sunk cost fallacy that we know, in this career. Will I be able to be as good as this one in a new job or a new career? So this is one of the most common. And then, of course, I mean, we always talk about your the four fears, but they are also present in my work and they were present in my life, as you know. But one of the most common is also the money. People think I will change my job or change completely career as I did. Will I get enough money? And I have the same problem. I have the same limiting belief. I will not earn enough money being a coach as when I was working in international organisations. Well, I'm the proof that that's the limiting belief. We're here and we're talking about it. And this is the proof. Of course, there are some life constraints that we always have to put in place and put in consideration. And that's different for different people. But those are just monkeys and you don't want to feed them. MARK You brought the bananas. Of course I did. But I'm grateful you brought the bananas. Dani, let me just just expand on some of the things you've said there. So this the money thing, I think, is really interesting, because I wonder, and again, just for the experience of those people who sat in front of you, how intrinsically linked is that sort of relationship with money that we have in terms of the, as you were saying, if I'm not earning the sort of money that I need to earn, that equates to I'm not being good enough. DANIELE Yes. At the same time, there's one element that is always missing in this kind of equation, which is you're getting X amount of money for the work that you're doing. But what are you actually paying that with? And for people like me who went into burnout and people who are on the verge of burnout, you're paying that with your health, you're paying that with your relationships and your energy and your passions as well. Some of the clients that had, they reignited some of their passions that they had completely forgotten because of the job they were doing. So in the end, you're running a deficit, because yes, you're getting X amount of money in that sense. And that's good. I'm not telling people to live with 500 euros, but at the same time, what are you paying that with? Is that your life? Is that your relationships? If you have problems in your personal life because of work, you got to put that as well in the equation. So this is normally what happens when you link money and your sense of worth in a and also in the sense of, am I good enough without my job? Who will I be? It happens so many times when people in English, I'm pretty much interested in when we use different words. I do coaching in three languages, mainly English, French and Italian. So it's difficult to explain it in English because it's difficult to say I'm doing the work instead of I am a doctor, for example, or in our case, I am a coach, right? You're using the verb to be. In a way, you're identifying yourself with your job, which is the most difficult thing to dismantle in a way. What will I be without my job? That's one of the biggest questions that I also receive from my clients. MARK Oh, I like that. That's very powerful. You're absolutely right. It's three languages as well. That's impressive. But the fact that you have that kind of that breadth and are approaching, yes, the words that we use. DANIELE Because words, as I said, create worlds. And as we know, of course, we've studied these things, but words create our thoughts and then our emotions and everything is connected, right? So if in your language you are identifying yourself with your job, because that's what your grammar is telling you to do, basically, then it's going to be more difficult. In Italian, it's a bit easier. You can say I am a doctor, I am a coach, but you can also say that you're doing something. It's the same thing. The easiest example is when in English you say I'm wrong. In Italian, you say I made a mistake. Once you realise that, that is already you're putting a boundary between you and the mistake and what you've done. So that sort of disconnection between who you are and what you do, it's easier in another language. But that's why with my clients who speak English, it's a little bit more, I wouldn't say complicated, but it takes a little bit more time to explain this. While in Italian, it's just easier, for example, but even in French. So even this, the use of language, when we describe what we do, who we are, that's another one of the locks that I say that keep us in our golden cage with a good salary, but then we're miserable. So when we are locked in this cage and we think I am my job, because I am doing this, because that's what I'm doing eight hours a day for five days a week. Well, eight hours over 24, it's only a third. What are you? Who are you in the other 16? Okay, for eight hours, you should sleep. I understand. But for the rest of the time, who are you? You're not just your job. MARK Absolutely. And coming back to that wonderful phrase you use, words are our world. So in your work, how do you introduce that sort of very subtle shift in language, so that people can not break, but understand, as you say, that the impact of the use of energy and the hyper focus that's making them overlook those other aspects of their world that are just so important, and that are potentially suffering because of that sort of fixation? DANIELE I think the most powerful one is the should. I should be doing this. I should do this. I should be. I should do. Tell me more. Tell me more. Yeah, go on. It's the most common one. And I always ask, I'm a bit, of course, as we all know, coaching is supporting people in their transformation, but it's also not only a mirror, but a challenge in a good way. So whenever I hear this, I always let them end their sentence or whatever it is, and then just go, you should, or do you want to? Even just this, they go like, maybe I don't want to, but I should because, and then there's a lot of conditioning from society, from the position you're in, which I totally understand, but even just questioning, you should, or do you want to? In all the languages, it works. I mean, in French, it's the same in Italian as well. So it's not difficult to do that. And it's always met with silence, which is the most powerful thing that you can see, that you can witness in a coaching conversation, right? So when this happens, we'll go, and even when I receive, because of course, I was also in their shoes. When I received that question from my first coach, I was like, ah, ah, well, never thought about that. And then it's fine. MARK Yeah. And I love what you've sort of began to pull out there again, that the shoulds are those looking sideways, those glances of this is actually someone else's story that I have been following or choosing to believe is my story. I'm doing these things because, as you say, society suggests that we should do things like, I need to do well at school, I need to go to university, I need to get the proper job, and then get the mortgage. And how so in that silence, which as you say, I mean, it's so powerful. And also scary, because it is that sort of honest realisation, is it that perhaps you've been following someone else's path? What's your first step towards making somebody feel okay about that realisation and accepting that, okay, we can now see what work might need to be done? DANIELE In case it's a realisation, in case they realise that they're following someone else's path, there's one journey, let's say, that we use, which is that just realising, going back to their roots and really going to the core of what their passions are, and what are the typical magical questions, either the magic wand, if you had a magic wand, what would you do in your life if money and time were not an issue? These kind of questions, of course. But also to really see what one of the questions that I love is, what do you do that makes time fly? There's something that you do in your life, you don't even realise that the time is fucking back, and you're sitting for, I don't know, two, three hours doing something, and you don't realise that the time is back. That's a big hint towards what your passion is. And this is what I realised, even in my life, when I, at some point, I remember it was the last year, at some point I was basically thinking about how I was spending my time. And I was wondering, before becoming a coach, what was I doing in my free time? I had my 95, I was making friends, I was travelling, which still things that I do well right now, but then what was I doing? I'm not a big fan of series, so I was not watching TV or anything like that, so it was like, let me remember. And I realised that I would spend every single moment of my free time without friends, job, or family, reading, or studying, or watching videos of psychology, or personal development. And I have been doing that for the past 15 years. But once I realised that, like, okay, so now that this has become my job, it feels, it is sometimes a little bit difficult to just put a boundary and be like, okay, you probably have worked 12 hours today, you probably can just stop, right? But this is the typical thing that happens when you are actually working with your passion. But that was realising that I already had a very visible passion in my life, just didn't realise it, I just didn't have the time and the space to sit and say, okay, if this job is not my passion, is there anything else that I'm already doing, where time flies and I don't realise it, that can become something that I can be paid for, in this case, or I can keep doing? I mean, you don't have necessarily, I'm a little bit controversial sometimes in these kind of things, I say that you, if you want, absolutely, go follow your passion and make it into your job. You can also, and it's completely legitimate, not do that, have a normal job, quote-unquote, and still follow your passions in another way. It all depends on your life, it all depends on what you have in terms of what I call them, the life constraints. I have no kids, I'm single, so in case, but this is what I could do. Other people might not have the same life situation that can bring them to do this kind of big jump that I did, but no matter your life situation, don't put them on the side. And there's always something that you want to do and you're compelled that you, again, as I said, time flies when you do that. And I'm not talking about watching TV, of course, I'm talking about doing something, that's the kind of thing. But this is when it comes to realise they've been living the life of someone else. Sometimes it's because of what they've done in their life, although it's something that they wanted, although it's not someone else's life, but they really wanted to do, I don't know, to do a kind of job and be someone for 10, 15 years. But it's also legitimate to just change your mind and just want to do something else for the next 10, 15 years. So not necessarily is a should that comes from the outside. Sometimes it's so interiorised, I don't know if that word exists in English, but it's so innate in you that you realise maybe I'm just locking myself in because I've been doing, again, the Sanko's fallacy, I've been doing this for so long that I don't want to abandon it, although I loved it and I still love it, but I'm called to do something else, although I'm not living someone else's life. So in different stages of life, you can be, I wouldn't say a different person, you're kind of always the same person, but you can put your energy into different things. And still, you're still you. Your career story, but in general, your story, your life, your journey is always the same. This is what I tell the people, the clients who come to me with six different CDs for six different applications that they can do, because they are all of it. And then they add, but I'm nothing. And I'm like, what do you mean you're nothing? Because I'm not specialising in one thing. And I go, so what? So I'm not able to find a job because of that. That's the question that a lot of them have. And they think that the fact that they have multiple experiences and passion, that's actually a weak point. When it's actually the other way around, it's your strength. And you will see, this is one part of the job that I do with some of the clients, there's always a red thread throughout all your career experiences and all your life. I found it in my own. I wanted to become a psychologist when I was 18. I had three options, psychology, languages, or political science. I ended up doing political science for, again, life constraints. So I couldn't do psychology and I couldn't do languages. But then I kept those three passions alive in a way. That's why I speak five and a half languages. And I then came back in a way to psychology recently. Well, not so recently anymore, but anyway, later in life. So there's a red thread. And I've always been, someone called me a cheap psychologist for my friend, for all my friends. And still, I kept them all alive. And I was, as I said, for 15 years, spending my time reading and studying psychology. So in a way, there's always been this support, help to my friends, people around me, my colleagues, that was always there. This is just one example in my life, but I've seen clients, and I cannot, of course, go too much into details, but the moment they see the red thread in their life, then everything is clear. And their applications are also way more accurate, in a way, and clear. And in a way, proud and brave. Although there are words that carry a little bit of heavy meaning, right? But they go to an interview, for a job interview, and they go confident. Because even if they know that the outcome might be 50-50, either they get a job or not. And it's not under their control. They cannot control the outcome, right? So they focus only on what they can do. They prepare well, they get there with the attitude of confidence of being, this is a dance. I want this job as much as you want me, or not. So it's not me begging you for a job. It's also you asking me to give you 40, 50, whatever, not 50, but I mean, eight hours a day for five days of my life and my energy. So as much as you decide on me, in a way, I also decide on you. Even just this shift then prepares them to be way more confident. And for those who have multiple experiences, again, as I did, they also come and they arrive to the interview with a confidence and an aura that says, this is who I am. And now that I know the story, now that I know why I've done all these things, why I've done multiple, why am I a generalist? David Epstein has wrote a whole book about this range, right? And now we can see with AI, everybody could be an expert. But what makes you different is not, you can be an expert. I'm very happy if you are, of course, but what can make you different is also the capacity, what they call soft skills, which is a horrible way to say it. But all those capacities, which is skills that can make you a fast learner, for example, if you need to learn something very quick with AI in this case, for example, thank God you have it, but also the capacity of seeing the bigger picture, for example. All these other skills are way more important right now. Anyway, so I'm going too much into details on that, but that's the kind of- No, no, it's good. MARK No, thank you. It's fascinating. I mean, there's an awful lot of things rattling around my head in terms of little threads that I want to tease out of everything you said. Also, you mentioned the word controversial quite early on in terms of people say you shouldn't focus on one thing, have that clarity, have that specificity, and not kind of be the generalist. I think the point you make, which is really interesting and entirely valid, is that as humans, we have multiple skill sets, multiple facets to what make us who we are, and it is sort of the combination of those ingredients that make us special. So there's no point in saying, or there's no value in saying Dani is a career coach and consultant. That's very niche, but Dani is a career coach and consultant working in five languages, the psychology element. Also, you've mentioned the travel, you've mentioned the entire story of your life has made you the particular career coach and consultant that you are. And leaning into all of those different elements of your story in your, and I'm going to be narrow here, in your social media and your marketing and the way you talk about yourself, the way you show up in a room, is what makes you attractive to the right sort of people who need that kind of career coaching and specialism. So I love all this. I love everything you said, because it's a very refreshing way of saying you should be the generalist, but the actual niche, the actual thing that makes you unique to everyone else is you, it's your story, it's those multiple lenses that make you who you are. So... And you can change. DANIELE And you can change. Absolutely. That's the thing that I find, for me, fascinating. I've had, probably haven't told this story yet, but I've had friends who fought because one said to the other, you've changed and I don't like it. And the other one replied, well, I take it as a compliment. MARK Yeah. DANIELE Because change is the only thing that is constant in life. Yeah. So if we are, I don't think we can be the same as 20 years ago. And of course, I mean, without talking about philosophy from ancient Greek times, but you never bathe in the same river twice, right? That's what... Right. So that's the point. You're constantly changing and you can. The permission to change will not always be the same. It's a scary one, but it's so liberating because then you realise I'm not constrained by what I've done in the past or what society tells me to do. Right. And so I can, if I want. You don't necessarily have to, but if you want, you can. Even if for 10 years you do a specific kind of job and then for the next 10 years you do another one, you can. MARK And how... So in that moment where you've got someone stood in front of you who has that uncertainty, has those mind monkeys, is feeling something of a discomfort around where they're at and they are looking to change. And they are, as you rightly say, scared of shifting into that other lens, that sort of that other version of themselves that's always been there. And of course they have that huge body of evidence in that entire life story of skill, experience, value, worth. How do you remind them and help them lean into habitually celebrating that story in order to make it easier for them to make that shift? DANIELE Well, I use the metaphor of navigation, of course, as I usually do. But if you want to know, even if you know where you want to go, let's assume you want to go to London. I always use a different theory depending on the person I talk to. So your case will be London. Even if you know where you want to go, and some people do not know. I didn't know at the beginning when I jumped on coaching. I had no idea what I was doing. And then the more you do, the more you realise where you want to go. But even if you know, I want to go to London. If you're starting your journey from Glasgow or from Dublin, it's a completely different journey in terms of directions, in terms of what you need to take. It's a flight or a train or whatever it is. So if you don't know that, how the hell can you know how to get there? Even if you know already where you want to go. So the first step is always to know ourselves better. And most of the times, which might sound surprising, we do not know ourselves enough. And that's the work that, of course, a coach can help you do, and a psychologist as well. But in my case, in the career, of course, a coach helps you wonderfully in order to do that. And that's already the first step. Because that already alone gives you the confidence of being like, okay, so I'm actually not that bad. I've actually said this to myself so many times. In order to remember, I am good enough. And I mean, you know what I'm talking about. I mean, you brought an entire book about it. So that's the point. That always is the first step. That's why in my journey, I mean, the programme that I do with my clients, there's always a first part. Who are you? Not what you do, but who you are. Again, as I said at the beginning, right? So the difference between I am a doctor and I work in a hospital. Because you are something else as well. A bunch of other things. But that's always the first. That alone, I've seen people change already completely their even physically coming to my office and be like little, you know, and then just being way more comfortable, even in just how they were sleeping. That already is a big shift. And then we work on that. We work, okay, what are your values? What are your strengths? What are the points where you can, I mean, the typical leaky guy, right? So what do you love to do? What can be paid for? What the work needs? What do you know that you can do? And then we combine those things and we see what you can do, what you want to do, not only what you can. There's a bunch of things that we can do, but not necessarily we want to do them all, right? So those agitations at the beginning are most of the time, they kind of, they will never disappear completely again, a sample of that, but they are tamed in a way just by realising who we are completely and being more confident in what we can do. Even if we do not have the skills right now, some of my clients, they wanted to do something that they have no skills for, but they knew that they could just invest X amount of time. I don't remember if it was six months or a bit more to invest time and money because they could in learning those skills that were the things that they realised but before doing the work with together they thought oh it's going to be impossible. Well maybe you just need time and money to invest and then you will be and then they changed they changed completed their job not career but job but still so once you know who you are automatically those monkeys are a little bit left whispering in your ears and then you're confident about everything you do. Most of the times we need first a mirror which is in in my case of course it's me in terms of my career coach but I always support my clients in asking their people around their relation like the closest friends or the relatives or their spouses. Most of the times people around us see what we are what we're capable of doing what happens with us I would never forget and I think this is the first I haven't say say it publicly. I've said probably only private conversation. So, breaking news. But there there's one thing that I will never forget that my ex partner told me. When your friends I think the sentence was something like your friends are drinking everything you say. Like what do you mean? Like they follow whatever you say in a way that you don't really realise. Like what are you talking about? You're a natural leader. that's what I'm telling you. And I was like, you're saying Sorry, my French. But and then later on I realised, well, maybe actually my partner was right because then I realised and I looked around and I asked people around me and then they were like, well, yeah, you're a source of inspiration. I was like, well, yeah. So, even I had to go through this. And that helped. So ask around you and then you'll see and then that's going to be already a first step to when you see yourself through the eyes of your closest friends or relatives or spouse then you'll see there was this amazing um it was an advertisement campaign of uh a company that were not named that was doing this kind of thing where people were describing themselves physically and an artist was drawing them without looking at them just by the description. And then they were drawing the same person based on the description of someone else, the closest people and then comparing the two drawings and the one of the self- description was not as beautiful in a way as the one of description of someone else and the focus was on specific things in that case was of course physical appearance right but this can apply of course also in the rest. And most of the times we're blind to our own strengths and skills and we never think about that. That's the most common comment I receive at the beginning of our program. Oh, I never thought about that because we're used to describe our skills for job interviews, but we're actually never really describing them fully and do a complete assessment of who we are completely. That's always the question that I that I ask. That's always the uh answer that I get. So, for a second I lost you. So, I was like, "Wait, what happened?" MARK That's okay. You're good. But that's fine. You're still here. It's good. But I I mean you're again it comes back to like you say those multiple facets, those multiple lenses um that that make us who we are. And I mean the story about the sort of the two drawings is so powerful because again I've seen this time and time again. You've got a sort of group of people around the room and everyone is so quick to be sort of disparaging about themselves but they would never speak about the person in front of them, the way they have that kind of self-t talk you you'll have kind of leaders in a room and you someone will lean across oh yeah but you're so good at this. I wish I could be more like you. Going back to the sort of the good enough and the comparisonitis and the so on so forth. You know we see we see the best in others because again coming back to the mind monkeys, we have that sort of inner voice saying if only we were a bit more like them then we'd be okay. But we are we are we again like you say we have all these different strengths and experiences and values and that I mean the baseline on which we kind of hold our own value is often so much lower than the truth and that's why the sort of the conversations that that you're having and again the sort of the realizations you're eliciting out those people in front of you are just so powerful and so important. DANIELE And you actually reminded me of one other thing very briefly because I see that so that time is passing but there was one thing that I only I realise in myself but also realizing in clients we're sometimes stuck with the self-definition like definition of ourselves that is applicable only to our past self. We say I am something or I cannot do something but it's actually a sort of leftover of a description of ourselves that of a person that we are not anymore. I'm going to be more explicit with an example. Uh last year at some point I mentioned to a colleague I was doing a course, and I mentioned to a colleague, oh I'm a um a shy person like this person that we were talking about. Aand she looks at me and like you a shy person. Are you crazy? Like no. Yeah, I mean I mean I've seen you in class and I would definitely not use shy as as an objective for you. And I realised, yeah, okay, I was like raising my hand every day in class. I was talking maybe not the whole time luckily, but I mean, I was definitely not a shy person. So, of course, she knew only a part of me, and I was maybe talking about the whole of myself, but I also realised I was actually talking about myself in the past. I'm a shy person that always been the description of me. I was always the one in the background working behind the screen, the behind the stage, you know. And then I realised that I was shifting and my body had already shifted and how I was presenting myself in the world but not my self-definition not my self-description. And the moment you update that then there's an alignment between your description your mind and your body and then you can do wonders. That happened as well with other clients. MARK 100%. Yeah that's I mean I could not agree with that more. Again, we we are so easily caught up in the decisions that we made for ourselves, a lifetime ago that we carry forward and until someone points it out or until we do that hard work ourselves to revisit that perspective, appreciate that it no longer serves us, that it's telling a story that simply isn't true anymore, and introduce that new point of view um with that. That's when the sort of the real shift happens. As you say, subtly things could already be happening, but it's not until you let go of that historic narrative that really the sort of the change will stick. I think so. We are we are almost— DANIELE Change that sticks. That's the one because you can change the furniture of your room, but if you don't change your apartment, that's not going to be just going to be a cosmetic change, not a rude change. MARK Totally. And I think I mean that's the difference between a lot of sort of the historic very light touch and question coaching uh that we see that you know encourages people to, you know, just go out there and do it and you'll be fine. We'll work on your time management. We'll work on your you all those kind of light things that make a very brief difference but then don't actually dig into or resolve the bigger mind monkey essentially the bigger belief. Uh again as we both said it's DANIELE It's a difference between change and a transition. I'm using of course William Bridges words but change can be cosmetic and a transition is way more profound way deeper in a way. MARK 100%. So, I'm going to finish by um just bringing back to something that you said to me uh back in the autumn. Um and I think it could be a nice place to wrap up because in terms of all the work that you do and how you bring uh people's sort of new lives, new directions together, embracing all those different facets of their personality and their story. You said to me that um one of your goals you you will focus on what gives you pleasure, meaning purpose. So, Dani, my final question to you is what gives you pleasure, meaning purpose? DANIELE As cheeky as it can sound is my work, the job that I'm doing with people, support that I gave to people. That's the reason why I left my job previous one and that's why I jumped onto a new completed career because I was looking for this. I liked my life before, but now I love it. And every day is better and better. And then I'll close it with this. One of my best friend um recently asked me, "When was the best period of your life?" And I jokingly, but not really jokingly said, "Today is the best day of my life." And as cheeky as it sounds, I know and I feel it and I the moment I say it, I always laugh. But at the same time, I know that I've had years and days when my happiness has done big jumps, but every day there's a little bit more, even if it's not that big of a jump. And so I know that 2016 was one of the best years of my life, but still nothing compares to the fact that where I am right now in terms of my confidence, in terms of what I know that I can do and what I want to do and how I feel with myself, even in the worst situations under missiles and drones, I can still kind of be calm and zen and just because I've done the work and this can this can happen. So back to your question, it is exactly this kind of work that I do that I did on myself first and I help people to do on themselves. MARK Thank you Dani. And I think just to sort of round off that point as you say doing the work on yourself really exacerbates that value, that power that the whole point of examining your inner story, embracing those monkeys, having that conversation, reflecting back and saying, "I deserve better. What does that look like for me? What can I do to make today the best day of my life?" Knowing that tomorrow could be better still. Amazing. Thank you so much for your time. Where can all these wonderful people who've been listening into our conversation, where can they find you? Tell us tell us about you. So, I've got I've got your website, which is harborchange.com. Of course, you're on LinkedIn, but leave us with something exciting. What why should they immediately jump off of this and get into your DMs and hit you up and get to know you better? Come on. What you working on? DANIELE Well, I'm working on I'm expanding as I said earlier with some of the clients to help them write their career story to understand that there's always a red thread between everything they've done in their life. And also, I'm currently expanding more of what I said a couple of times to my clients. There's always a reason behind everything you do. And I know that you know this sentence. There's always a reason behind everything you do in your life. And it's always the best reason behind every your decision based on the information that you have, the feelings and the tools that you have at the moment. So even things that we think they are mistakes, they're actually lessons for the future. So I'm expanding on this bit more and helping people not only in this the program that I have which has six sessions in order to change either something in your job or change completely your job here but also be more expanding on. So, you mentioned harborchange.com that's my website on LinkedIn as well. If you're in Brussels hit me a send me a message. I love doing this kind of work not online but in person. So, I focus a lot on people who work in the institutions in Brussels or everything around them or everyone who works in Brussels. So, I prefer face to face is always better. Wish for example this conversation we could have done in presence, but I'll come to the UK sooner than later. Um so yeah that's where and that's where you can find me. MARK Amazing. Thank you so much for your time today, Dani. I really appreciate it. It's been wonderful to chat to you as it always is. Thank you to everyone who has tuned in. I hope you've enjoyed it. I haven't seen any comments. Um I'm just going to quickly scour the chat, but I think are always Yeah, there we are. People get to see if people have actually been tuning in. So that's lovely. So, we know we know it worked. People can always watch it back. That's exciting. DANIELE And I hope everyone brought bananas with them today because I was What do you want? I I told you I would have brought it and you didn't bring your own bananas. MARK I didn't bring my own bananas. No. No. I Well, no pun intended. Well, now I'm looking sideways and thinking, "Oh, if only I was good enough to bring my own bananas." On that note, we shall leave it there. Anyway, thank you again, my friend. Um, we'll be back with my monkeys next month. I think it's Friday, 10th of April, 10:00 a.m. UK again with an amazing guest, but I'm going to tease that for now and announce it on LinkedIn shortly after. But once again, you're a superstar, my friend. Um, thank you again. Thank you everyone who tuned in and we will speak again soon.