MARK Welcome, everybody. Thank you for joining us on Mind Monkeys Welcome: Bananas Optional, a regular LinkedIn live stream where we name, explain, and reframe the most common hesitations that get in the way of the successes that we deserve. I'm Mark Franklin, I am your guide as we embark on a raw, honest, irreverent, and important conversation designed to normalize the fears that we each face at work and at play in order to help you, our amazing listener, reframe the perspectives around the stories that you've created for yourself that have been feeding those monkeys. Now, today I am joined by resilience guide and new author, Gilly Mulford. Gilly is an advocate for resilience and restorative power of a quiet mind. Originally the founder of a virtual assistant business, she spent years helping busy professionals and families find clarity and restore order. She created both the practical space that brings structure and the emotional space that allows us to breathe, think, and reconnect with what truly matters. Her work now reaches far beyond organizing homes and businesses. It reaches the heart of wellbeing, so you can guess why I've invited her onto the show today. Um, through her writing, because Gilly, as I say, is a newly published author, through her writing, Gilly explores emotional clarity, self-trust, and the courage it takes to find your voice again. Gilly, welcome to Mind Monkeys. Thank you so much for being a part of today's show. GILLY Oh, thank you so much for having me on. It's a real honour, Mark. I'm so, so excited to talk about this. MARK The honour is mine. I'm looking sideways, so I've got so many questions because we want to talk about this today. This is your book. It came out on Tuesday? GILLY It did, yes. MARK Is that right? Fantastic. Um, normally the very first question I ask every one of my guests is about mind monkeys, so it's kind of tell me about your monkeys. What is the most common hesitation that you face either in your own life or the one that you see most sort of often within the sort of the lives of the people that you serve? You have very, very generously shared your story, your incredible story of sort of resilience in this book, so I'm gonna invite you, if you'd be so kind, just to give us a very sort of quick overview explanation of your story and what led you to share that, as I say, so generously in, in "Where Dandelions Grow." GILLY Oh, goodness me. Um, my li- I would say, um, the universe has thrown more than my fair share of, um, trauma at me in my life, and at various stages I've struggled to cope. I've had a breakdown. I've been suicidal. Therapy that I've had, the techniques that I've picked up over the years have enabled me to be strong, independent person that I am today and, um, help others. And it's out of all those conversations that I've had over the years when people have said to me, "You're inspirational. You're, you're amazing. How do you rock up when this has now happened to you? And how much more can you take?" I'm like, "Yeah, bring it on. It's fine," because I've got these coping mechanisms. So when people say, "You rock up, you're bubbly, you're positive all the time. Does nothing phase you?" I'm like, "It does," but it's taking those moments to pause, and, and sharing that with people has really been the inspiration behind the book. I had one, um, in particular, a friend that asked me for some help one evening, and I shot straight to her house, and then she stayed with me the following weekend and, and we joked that she had, like, 13 hours of therapy in the garden with me as we were chatting. But to see the miraculous difference in her when she took on board what I'd shared with her, and she worked, and she practiced the techniques. She said, "You need to write. You need to get this down on paper." And I said, "Oh, I'll, I'll write a little guide." So I started to write, and six... it was six weeks later, I had a 12-chapter book. It just- That's incredible ... came out. It, it, I don't know where it came from. It's never been on my radar to write a book. If someone had ever said, "Would you like to write a book?" I'd have said categorically, "Absolute no, no. Uh, no way, no. Not something I could do." But it, it just happened. Um, and here it is. MARK Here it is. Six weeks, that's incredible. Yeah. But, but I'm, I'm guessing, I mean, again, it'd be good to sort of hear a little bit about that sort of writing process, but the fact that, you know, there's so much of your own story in here, and as you say, the sort of, the power of sharing that and sharing the tools that have helped you along the way, and that resilience. Resilience is a word that sort of seems to be, like, the red thread through the book. Um, and I absolutely love that. And there's kind of, there's a, there's a sort of trampoline analogy as well, isn't it, that you share in terms of that kind of bounce back ability where you're kind of falling, you realize that there is the opportunity through choice, um, to bounce back up. Um, there's, there's a question that was raised by someone who helped you, uh, sort of early on in some of the many traumas that you've experienced and that you've, as I say, generously share. A question from, I think it was your counsellor, which was really powerful. It's one of the first things that I've, I've got loads of Post-its on here already. Um, they asked you, "Who is Gilly?" GILLY Yes. And at that time, it was so difficult because when they asked me who, you know, "Who are you?" I was like, "Well, I'm a, I'm, I'm..." And I was going through a divorce, so I was, I, I said, "I'm a, I'm a, I'm a wife, I'm a mother, I'm an EA, I'm this, I'm that." And they said, "No, who are you?" And I didn't know because I'd taken on the roles that, that I did, and that's who I saw myself as. So, me as an individual, it was a real work to try and drill down and find out who I was and what I wanted. Um, because I'd lost part of that identity. I was getting a divorce, so I was g- no longer gonna be a wife. So, I felt like I was losing part of my identity when actual fact, I wasn't. I was at the very base of building it and identifying who I was, who I wanted to be, or, or developing into who I wanted to be. Um, and it was really, really difficult and I didn't know who I was or what I wanted to be. So, I'd sort of... And I say to other people, "If you don't know what you want, start with what you don't want." And then when you start ruling out what you don't want or what you don't want to be, it narrows the field completely. Whether that's identifying with yourself, whether it's a job, whether it's a dog that you want to get, you know, whatever it is in life, if you don't really know what you want, start with what you don't want. And it, yeah, it just filters things down for you and makes things a little simpler. So, it was a lot of work for me and quite hard to think, "Actually, I don't know who I am." MARK It's, the reason the question stood out for me, again, as you've just shared, it's such a powerful question. Um, and it's such a, you know, a deep answer to explore. Ju- just, and I love that flip that you've just shared, you know, what is it you don't want. As you were beginning to kind of explore who Gilly is, would you mind sharing just some of the things you decided you didn't want, some of the things that were no longer or had, should never have been Gilly? GILLY Being a total pleaser all of the time, putting myself last, you know, in the list, making sure that everyone else is okay, sacrificing the things I wanted to do because I was, "No, you go out. I'll look after the children." You know, all of those things that, that we tend to do more as, as, as, as mothers. Um, especially if you're a single mom, you're, you're making sure that your children are okay before anything else, and within that you lose your identity. So, it was a case of, right, you've gotta put yourself first because you can't help your, your child. I couldn't help Ollie if I wasn't in a place that I was putting myself first to a certain degree, because if I don't look after myself, I can't look after him. And it did get to that stage where I had to actually go and my ex-husband had to move back into our house to look after our son because I wasn't well enough to even look after myself, and I had to... And I went and lived with friends, and they looked after me for a month while I, while I worked through with, um, with some therapists. Jesus. So, um- Yeah ... yeah, some dark times. Yeah. You know, and this is- Yeah ... this is the power of discussion, you know, uh, it's so important. You know, and I, I, I said to you beforehand that there is no topic that's off limits with me, um, 'cause I think it is so, so important to discuss anything that you need to and get out. MARK I, I completely agree. And I mean, I've used the word generosity a couple times. In many ways that, I think that undervalues just how much you've given of yourself both to this book and, and indeed, you know, the work you do and the conversations you have. I, I couldn't agree more in terms of the more, again, the more we talk about these things, hopefully the easier it is for the people around us or the people in front of us to start exploring who they are and answer that question that your sort of counsellor asked you. There's a wonderful paragraph in here, and again, I think it's kind of sort of relevant to as you begin to explore who you are, who you've been, who you no longer want to be. I'm just gonna read it if I may, um, 'cause this is, you know, it's a fantastic kind of touch on neuroscience, uh, but I think it, it's, it's worth everyone hearing because it's such an important part of the journey. "Your brain has been trained by trauma and pain to expect the worst, to interpret hope as danger, to mistake healing for another hurt waiting to happen. Yet that light, however dim it seems, is real. It's the accumulation of small victories you can't see yet, the quiet work your body is doing to repair itself, the gradual rewiring happening beneath your awareness. Recovery asks you to walk toward that light even when every instinct tells you to run the other way, trusting that sometimes what looks like an ending is actually a beginning." That, I mean, that is beautifully written for a start. Well done. But again, there is so much in that paragraph. Could you just expand on that, almost the contradiction that exists within your own mind in terms of your brain trying to keep you safe and you, who you're trying to become being- GILLY It is. I mean, we are, we are born with self-preservation. It's in our DNA. Um, your mind wants to keep you safe, out of harm's way. But within that, sometimes it restricts you in doing what you want to do, what you need to do. Um, and it's reinforced in our upbringing. "Don't touch that. Don't climb a tree, you might fall out. Don't run too fast, you might fall over." Because your parents have seen the dangers and they're trying to reinforce that with you. But when it becomes an issue where it's stopping you doing things, when... And, and this I think is when anxiety and other, other thoughts and feelings come in, it stops you taking that next step forward. And I use the analogy of it, it's, it's like seeing the light at the, at the end of the tunnel and you thinking it's an oncoming train, when in actual fact it's not, it's the light, it's the way out. But your mind is saying, "Don't go there, that's a train." It's the, it's the pre-empting of danger that isn't actually there, and that's when we have to say it and challenge what is thought and what is fact. Because our thoughts aren't real. MARK No. No. And again, that was one of the points that I was gonna leap onto, 'cause, um... Okay, so I'm looking sideways just remind myself of the notes. You said, uh, there's a line in there, "Your inner critic doesn't care about facts. Thoughts are not facts." So, to challenge it, you ask, where is the proof? Just again, expand on that. Yeah. You've got, you've got your brain telling you, you know, creating these stories. How, how, through some of the techniques you've used, through some of the things you share later in the book, how do you challenge it? How do you demand that proof? GILLY You d- you, you just have to, you have to listen to that voice. The worst thing you can do is shut the door on it, shout at it, tell it to shut up, because it is a, it is a force stronger than you. You need to take away its power. Right. So when it bangs on the door, if you shut the door, it will bang louder and louder and louder until you open and you hear what it's got to say. So, um, imposter syndrome and inner critic are the same thing. Um, one is just reinforcing the other. So I used to, I've, uh, I characterized mine, I gave it a name. So, it was Dave, and you meet Dave in the book. Um, and it was a case of, okay, make him an acquaintance, not your enemy. So, he comes in, you listen to what it's saying, "Don't climb that tree, you might fall out." But if you say to him, "Oh, okay. Okay, I hear what you're saying-" But how do you know I'm going to fall out of the tree? Doesn't. Doesn't. He hasn't got an answer because it's not fact, it's a thought. Yes, it's self-preservation, but he's telling you something that isn't real. So, when you challenge it, he'll fumble, it, it, it doesn't know what to come back with. So, in your mind, you've got the choice then, and this is the whole sort of theme of the book, is the power of the choice to say, "Well, if I'm careful and I climb that tree, what if I get to the top and the beautiful view I'll see, or I'll get to pick those apples or..." You can out- outweigh that negative thought that he's put in there, and that's, uh, uh, through self-preservation to keep you safe. 'Cause you don't know you're gonna fall out of the tree. You don't know you're gonna get to the top. But equally, you don't know that you're not gonna be safe or that you are gonna be safe. You know, it's, it- it's how you interpret what you're doing and then looking at the facts, not the thoughts. And it takes work; it takes a lot of time. But eventually, my Dave stopped rocking up because I say, "Thank you for your advice, but I choose not to take it." And before I knew it, he wasn't coming round anymore. He's obviously still there, but he doesn't have a lot to say these days because I, I took the power away from him by letting him speak, hearing to what he had to say, and then choosing not to take that advice. Brilliant. MARK Brilliant. And as you said, it's a huge amount of work. It's a long journey, and within that you've gotta be, you know, prepared to have those conversations and, and hear Dave out, um, and still have the call of s- sort of the resilience, the tenacity to thank him, but make your own decision. Again, w- thinking about sort of the, the work that you do now, the people that you support, um, what kind of tips, techniques, h- how do you help people show up and have those conversations with their own Dave? GILLY S- sometimes, I mean, it can be really, it, it's usually really personal. It's usually something personal that's gone on that's underlying that, that Dave has grabbed hold of. Um, it's a fear, it's a past trauma, and that is what he's anchored on because he knows that's where he can push your buttons. Yeah. So it's finding what that point is and then working on it, working through, um, acceptance of what's happened. Realize you can't change it, but you can make a difference in the choices you make going forward. Um, we work on, you know, don't live with regrets. The decision you made at any one point in your life was probably right for you at that time. You might not do the same thing now, but at that moment in time, it was right for you then. So it's not, it's not a regret. It's a, it- it's an experience that you've learnt from and, yeah, probably wouldn't do that again. You might. You might go, "Oh, yeah, okay." But Dave will, your inner critic will anchor down. So it's getting to the root sometimes of what is your greatest fear, and then working through that and rationalizing it, and separating the thoughts from the fears to disarm Dave as such. MARK Lovely. So yeah, I just wanna ask a little bit more about your journey. Again, as you say, y-y-you, you endured many different sort of traumas, um, and all sorts of kind of, you know, moments in your life which were very, very difficult. Through that, or sort of perhaps because of that, you, you've found this journey where you are looking to help others and again, sort of take the sting and sort of, you know, take the power away from people's inner critics and help them find who they really are. Tell me about the joy that that brings you. Just you. J- just sh- share- GILLY Oh, Mark. Oh- Yeah ... it just makes my heart sing. Yeah. I mean, after I'd written the book, you know, when friends said, "Oh, you need to get this out there, you need to do it," for me, using the dandelion, you know, it's so important to me 'cause it, it's me spreading my seeds of strength for other people to grow their roots of resilience. So when people take something on, they say, "This works, and I love this, and I use this now," and it just fills me with so much joy. I mean, I get really emotional because it's... listening to people's stories, I mean, that's what my life's about. And if I didn't have to work, I, I wouldn't. I'd just do, I'd do charity work all the time, and I'd be going, "Yeah, I can do that," and, "I'll, I'll help you." And, um, because it... Yeah, I j- I just feel like that's my purpose now. That whether, you know, I'm like, I, I'm sort of more of a spiritual sort of person as in, you know, the universe has thrown so much at me, and it's like, "Oh, okay, if this was the path you wanted me to be on to write this book, okay, I've take, I've taken I've taken heed now. I listened. I heard what you said." Yeah. "Enough already, but I'm doing it. This is the path you've chosen then, then I'm on that path now." But it just makes me incredibly happy and incredibly proud that I, that I can share it and, and it's all through experience. I'm not a clinician, I'm not a trained counsellor or therapist, but it's written from the heart. Um- Yeah ... and like you say, from, from real experience. Childhood trauma, um, abuse, um, a breakdown, being suicidal, being in that point, losing my son through suicide. Um, you know, that was hard, but early on because of the techniques that I've gone got accepting that he wasn't here anymore, it was his decision. But I also had the understanding of that because I'd been at that point. Yeah. Yeah. So, I knew what he was going through in that five-minute window, that, that, that ultimate, um, at that ultimate point. Um, divorce, um, redundancies, um, yeah, there's just been so much, but I've got stronger as I faced each one because I practice what I preach effectively. And like you say, it is, it is a constant work in progress, but practice breeds habit, and eventually you're doing things without ev- your subconscious has taken over, and the algorithms of your brain have changed, and you're doing something without even thinking. You've automatically gone to a positive, not a negative or, um, you've challenged, you've gone, "No," paused, and this isn't, this is just a thought, it's not fact. And identifying, you know, anxiety and relabelling it and yeah, all of those things. MARK I, I mean, it, it, it's a remarkable kind of scale of emotion, isn't it, in, in terms of, you know, the, the part of Gilly's story, which is here and who Gilly is now, and the, and you are, you... As you say, through that lived experience, you are an absolute glowing testament to the power of choice. Um, it's remarkable. You know, a lot of counsellors, coaches, therapists, you know, even through the work I do, you, you hope, you hope to see that somebody is able to begin that journey of better choices, um, through the work you do. But you sh- you s- ev- everything you... When we first met, and this is a point that I really wanted to share, when we first met, and it wasn't that long ago, it was only, only a few sort of months ago, and you started telling me about the book, and obviously everything you were telling me about the book was like for me, "God, I wanna read this. This is so aligned with the kind of work I do. This is, you know, a kindred spirit. I really like where you're taking this and the message." But that energy you had, I didn't know anything about, you know, your backstory. Um, and it would've never have crossed my mind that someone this positive, th- this so full of energy and generosity and that willingness to help others, um, all of that came from such, you know, such traumatic times. Um- But I, you, I, I think it's, I think it's so important for people to hear stories like yours. Uh, there's, there's a reference quite early on in the book to Viktor Frankl's book, um, "Man's Search for Meaning," I think that's what it's called. I can't remember, it's behind me. Um. Different story, different kind of scale of, of, of trauma, I guess. But, but a very similar outcome perhaps in terms of that optimism and that cause, you know, that determination to, you know- Yeah. GILLY That choice- that choice of how you want to think. Yeah. You know, you control your thoughts at the end of the day. Yeah. People say, "Well, I can't help that this thought comes into my head." But you can, 'cause you can pause and you can challenge it, or you can say, "Actually, that doesn't serve me well today," or, "I don't, I don't want to think like that. I'm gonna think of something else. I'm gonna go down a different route." It, yeah, it's so interesting. So interesting. It, it's fascinating. MARK And I'm guessing even though, as you say, you're, you know, you're, you're more positively wired now, your, your brain looks for sort of the habits that serve you as opposed to sort of interrupt or hold you back, there must still be moments where, you know, Dave does pop up and says, "Ooh, it's me. Um, how can I interrupt you today?" Yeah. I- is it purely just, you, you are now used to challenging and questioning or, or do you still have those moments of, "Ooh, hold on. What if?" GILLY Yeah. I, yes. Yeah, I do. I mean, Dave might rock up and say something. I'm like, "Oh, okay. Come on then. Bring it on. What have you got for me today?" Yeah. You know, that sort of attitude. And I can imagine him going, "Oh, right. Okay, I'm not gonna bother then if you..." You know? He's like, "Oh, well, I'm defeated already." Because I'm like, "Yeah, come on. Come- what have you got to say?" Um, but equally, um- There are times when you think or you start to catastrophize or spiral, but I have a trampoline, so my trampoline is like the power of the pause. It's if you recognize you're spiralling or you're starting to catastrophize or you s- the inner critic, "Oh, w- w- what if, what if I'm not this?" Or, "What if this, this happens?" If, if you recognize it, which you train your brain to do, then that's it, because you've paused and you've recognized it and you've gone, "Okay." I mean, the other week I was feeling quite overwhelmed and I, uh, my friend said, "Are you okay?" And I said, "I'm feeling overwhelmed." And she said, "Are you all right?" I said, "I am because I've recognized it, I've named it, so therefore-" Yes ... "I've paused and I know what it is. So, what am I gonna do? I am now gonna take a step forward because I know what it is, I know what I'm doing, so all I can do is, is, is go forward because I've recognized it." So it's like, "Well, now I'm gonna take action." So that's fine. So nothing really phases me. Y- yeah. I'm not s- I'm not, I'm not asking, I'm not putting it out there for the universe to throw anything else. And I'm not challenging the universe, believe me. No, for sure. MARK But I mean, again, everything you've just said there, that, that's what power of the pause, just, just giving yourself the space to recognize that there is a choice in this moment- Mm-hmm um, as opposed to just going with the emotion or, or accepting of it. It's a, it's a very simple kind of hack, if you wanna call it that. And yet it's not that simple because so many people overlook that opportunity, don't they? Yeah. GILLY There's so many layers underneath it. I guess- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. MARK There's, again, something else I just want to s- read from the book, if I, I may. This was, um, I thought, again, a really important sort of, uh, paragraph. Because again, whilst you and I, you know, th- through the work we do, we wanna help people notice that choice and take on that pause. And as you've said a couple of times already, sort of this morning, you know, there's a lot of work involved in terms of helping somebody get there. But there's a lovely, again, it's only a five-line paragraph. Uh, "There's no shame in needing help to gain perspective. Needing help doesn't mean you're broken. It means you're wise enough to know that some journeys aren't meant to be taken alone, and that sometimes the strongest thing you can do is say, 'I can't do this by myself right now.'" And I want to share that 'cause, again, I think it is really important to normalize, you know, the idea of putting your hand up and saying, "Actually, you know, I think I need someone else just to kind of hold that space for me whilst I pause." T- tell me a little bit more about that. Tell me a bit more about your experience of having that value of someone by your side in those moments. GILLY Oh, um, it was re- it's really hard to ask for help. I think it's one of the hardest things- Yeah ... that there is to do. Um, a lot of people think they're resilient, and are resilient to a certain degree, and it feels like failure when you're asking for help because you're no longer strong enough to do what you've always been doing, juggling all the plates, helping other people. Um, and it's that fear of failure or, and fear of someone else's opinion of you, that you're not the person that they, you think they think you are. Um, yeah, and there's no, there, there's another line I'm not using there is, uh, frankly, someone else's opinion of you is none of your business... put that opinion to one side. That's a good, good. Yep. Um, but having someone by my side, my, my best friend has been there. She's been my rock, my co-conspirator, my... Yeah, she, she's, she's just incredible. Um- And asking for help. I mean, I was ha- at one stage I was having therapy and my ther- my, my coun- well, counselling, and my counsellor said, "I want you to go back to your best friend and ask her if you're a burden to her." Because I was so caught up with, I can't ask for help because I feel I will be a burden, that I'm… And I sat, I remember sitting on the sofa and, and looking at her and say, "I've got to ask this question to you out loud. I don't want to ask it 'cause I know the answer, and it seems ridiculous and I'm gonna laugh while I'm asking it." But I said, "I have to ask you, when I ask for he- am I a burden?" Oh, well, yeah, we laughed and there was, um, yeah. We, we had a... I said, "Exactly." She said, "Why?" I said, "Because I've had to ask it out loud." The power of having that discussion and saying something out loud, it's going through your mind, you know what the answer's gonna be, and it just sounded ridiculous, me asking her, because I knew that I wasn't. But it was also so powerful because it reemphasized that no, you're not a burden, and you do need help, and you do need to ask for help. So, for me, being a burden was the biggest part of, um, more than, f- um, appearing to be a failure. And it's different for everybody. The, the reasons why you don't ask for help are, are very, very different. Um, and sometimes, sometimes a help, asking for help can just be keeping a journal, writing something down on a pa- to having that, for that power of discussion, doesn't have to be a physical discussion. It can be a conversation with a piece of paper. You can go out and burn it, you can give it to the, you can do, you do, do whatever you want to do, write your worries down or, um, but that can be quite cathartic as well. Just working, working through things. But it is difficult to ask for help, and I recognize that because, because I've been there. And, and at, at one stage, I, you know, when I was in that moment of not wanting to be here anymore and I was suicidal, I hadn't asked for help. It's only that my best friend had come round that day, um, and s- asked me a question, and then I broke down, that, yeah, actually stopped me. Yeah. So, it's recognizing when you need to ask for help and that overwhelm's kicking in for whatever reason, and just taking, putting on your big girl pants or big boy pants and going, "Do you know what?" Or messaging someone and saying, "Have you got five minutes? Have you got time for a coffee?" Yeah. Setting up a code word with your best friend. That's nice. Yeah. Or a, a, um, an emoji on the phone so that you don't even have to speak, or you don't even have to write something. You just send them an agreed emoji that means, "I need you now." MARK That's hugely powerful. Thank you for sharing that. That's a- Yeah. Yeah. A, a very I just, I, I love, I love the kind of the simplicity of that. Again, you're, you're taking away some of the, the scale of that challenge of putting your hand up, aren't you? Just turning it into something very small, very simple, very immediate. Um, yeah, one b- one click, one press. Yeah, that's, that's great. Thank you, Gilly. Yeah. Um, I'm looking sideways 'cause again, in the... I only, I only got, I... The book only arrived sort of late last night. I was, I was trying to read the digital version. I, in a very, very good way, I stopped so many times thinking, "Well, this is something I need to mention. This is something I need to mention." I'm gonna turn it around. If someone had to just leap to one chapter of the book, where would you say they would get the most value from where you are? GILLY Oh, goodness. That's really difficult because the book isn't written for you to read it from start to finish. You can, but each chapter is a standalone chapter with a different technique, so that one, one thing might work for one person, one might work for something else. GILLY Something that's, that's actually resonated with you, you can revisit. So… Yeah, there isn't one particular piece. MARK That's, that's absolutely fine. I, I think that's a really valid point though. As you say, different things work for different people, and the fact that there is, you know, such a breadth of different ideas, suggestions, approaches, uh, make- makes the book even more valuable. GILLY It is, and that's why we use the, the seeds that, you know, we use the analogy of the mind's garden. Your, you know, I, I can give you the seeds, these seeds of strength, which are really, really simple techniques to do. Easy to scatter the seeds. The hard work is in the nurturing and the watering of them, in the... Yeah. Yeah. It, it's that. But then when they start to bloom, some might lie dormant, others, you know, this is your mind's garden that you're planting up. So, your mind's garden will look very different to mine. Mine will- Yeah ... blossom in, in different areas. Some seeds will lie dormant. Some won't take root at all. So it, it's very different, and it's very individual to, to each reader as to what they will take from it, what they will then interpret, and how they'll use it. MARK Excellent. Completely valid. Thank you. So, let's get going then, Gilly. What's next? The book is out there. Went- it's been less than a week. It was the number one bestseller in two, two categories. Just saying that out loud. What's next? W- GILLY Oh, what's next? So, um, I'm going to be doing some speaking events. Um, another, I'm going to do, um... I've got a couple invitation for podcasts. So, it, it's getting out there and helping people. I mean, that's the idea of the book. You know, I never wrote it with the intention of, you know, wow, I wanna be a, a bestseller and, you know. It was like, just get it out there. So many people have asked me, "Can I do that?" So it's, it's out there, and it's spreading that hope and the techniques. So yeah, it's just looking to expand on that now and talk, whether it's to corporates, whether it's one-on-one, whether it's group coaching, charities, um, reformation. You know, yeah, whatever. Whatever, whatever's gonna come my way, I will embrace. Uh, literary festivals we've got coming up and a wellness, um, festival in October. So that's exciting. Um, so yeah, lots on the horizon. MARK And just, uh, think about my own experience of writing a book, I found the whole thing very cathartic, and it gave me a lot more clarity around how I want to work and who I want to work with. What about yourself? H- how has, how has this changed, if at all, 'cause it might not have changed who you wanna work with, how you wanna work with them, and so on. Or, or is it just kind of giving you even more just passion and commitment to just do, do more? GILLY Yeah. It is. It is. It's do more. And I think, I think further down the line I will probably know, we'll, we'll sort of, it, it'll channel more. Um, but at this- Yeah ... stage, you know, at, at the book launch last night I had someone say, "Well, do you do talks? You know, I'm, I'm the mental health champion at work and we need someone to talk about..." I said, "Well, do you wanna talk about grief? Do you wanna talk about overwhelm? Do you wanna talk about general wellbeing?" I said, "You know, go to the website. There's signature talks that gives you an idea on there the things that I can, I can talk about. But I could, yeah, adapt it to whatever, whatever you, you need, um, whatever you wanna talk about." You know and emphasize that no subject was off limits either. If they have to cover off suicide, if they have to cover off, um, grief, loss, redundancy. You know, because things like redundancy people forget. You know, you go through a grieving process of losing. Absolutely. Yeah. Uh, you know, it's a loss. Any loss usually has a grieving process. So yeah, who knows? Who knows? MARK Who knows? Such an exciting time. So for all these people listening, um, who want to have Gilly in their, or they need Gilly in their lives right now, whatever that looks like, what's the best way to get in touch with you? GILLY Um, my website gillymulford.com. Uh, all the information about me, what I do, what I'm, what I, yeah, what I'm up to. And, um, obviously a link to the book and details of the book if they fancy diving in. MARK Fantastic. And all your socials are Gilly Mulford as well, aren't they, actually? GILLY Yes, they are. MARK On all the platforms, so you're very easy to find. Gilly, thank you so much. Again, I've used the word generosity many times, but I think, you know, the book is such a generous gift to the world, uh, from you in terms of helping people make better choices, take that pause and recognize that, you know, the inner critic does not like facts, likes to make up stories for us. So don't listen to Dave, uh, listen to your heart, follow the universe and find out who you are. Again, really appreciate your time. Good luck with the book. Uh, yeah, go on. Well, I can't wait to finish it- ... and then reread it all over again, uh, and come back with more questions. But anyway, um, thank you so much. We shall leave it there. Um, we have, we've h- I know we've had people listening, people were just sort of commenting, you know, in terms of who are you is the most difficult question to ask of all, uh, was one thing that someone's mentioned. So, for everyone listening, go give Gilly a follow for sure. And just to let you know that the next episode of "Mind Monkey's Welcome" is exactly the same time next Friday, so the 12th of June, with the amazing, uh, mentor, coach, sort your shit out guide, as she likes to call herself, Sara Southey. Amazing. That's one to tune into. We both, we're both big fans of Sa- Sara, aren't we? So, um, yeah, that's gonna be a good one. Again, Gilly, thoroughly appreciate it. No, thank you. Thank you everyone for tuning in. Thank you so much. And see you all next week.