MARK Thank you for joining us on Mind Monkeys Welcome Bananas Optional, a regular opportunity to pause, then name, explain and reframe the most common hesitations that get in the way of the successes that we deserve. I'm Mark Franklin and I'm your host as we embark on raw, honest, irreverent and important conversations designed to acknowledge and normalise the fears we each face at work and at play, in order to help you, our amazing listener, reframe those perspectives around the stories that you've created for yourself, stories that perhaps have been feeding those monkeys. Now I have a wonderful guest today, so let me just give you their bio. So, Nicky Souch is a business strategist who helps business owners who feel stuck, overwhelmed or disheartened work out what needs to happen next in their business. With 20 years of corporate finance experience behind her, Nicky brings a calm, objective perspective to the reality of running your own business. She works with both the business and the person behind it, helping business owners understand what needs attention, tackle the self-doubt that can get in the way of taking action and make decisions that move the business forward, whilst keeping true to themselves. Her philosophy is simple, it is your business, your way. Hello Nicky, how are you doing? NICKY Hello, hi, thank you very much, thanks for having me. MARK It's a pleasure, it's a pleasure. We know each other very well, we've actually sort of worked together in various sort of different ways, so we have a very similar philosophy in the way that we coach, in the way that we kind of encourage people, to the point that I think when we've done work together, people also said to us, oh you've clearly planned that so well, because you just kind of lead off from one, but I think it just comes naturally, which is lovely. One of the many reasons why I invited you on, but let's start where we always start, by sort of inviting you to share where those sort of monkeys are showing up for either you or the people you serve, and when we were speaking the other day, you said that it just feels like an awful lot of uncertainty at the moment, that people are sort of telling you very similar things, so tell me what people are telling you at the moment? NICKY Yeah, I think the underlying message in all of it is there's just so much noise out there at the moment, there's so many things that people are saying either to do, or not to do, or you know, picking up on language that people should or should not be using, and I think obviously AI is a massive, massive topic of conversation at the moment, and I think it's really making people almost, it is making people second guess themselves, and really doubt what they need to do, and what they need to say, and I think the long and short of it is they've just got lost, they're you know, there's just everyone telling them all these different things, and they don't actually know what it is that they need to do, and unfortunately then that means that people shy away from doing the thing that they're actually really good at, and I think that's that sort of thing that really gets me with all of this, is these people that I work with, they have so much skill set, so much talent and passion, and it's not having that opportunity, because it's almost like they're being silenced, and yeah, I just want people to sort of find themselves again, and you know, help them along along that journey, because it is a journey, and I know people shy away from that word, but the fact is that is the part of it, that's the bit that is the transformative bit, and yeah, just helping them to find themselves in all this noise that is just everywhere. MARK I completely agree, that I've been thinking myself all weekend, and I didn't post anything this morning on LinkedIn, because I couldn't find the words, but I am feeling that sort of, it's almost like an anger, but it's such a huge frustration, in the, as you say, we feel silence, we feel that we can't do this, we can't do that, people are saying to us we should do this, and just come back to what you're saying, those examples of what we should do, what we shouldn't do. Can you just share a few examples of, again, what people are saying, that they're being pushed into doing, perhaps they're not comfortable? NICKY Yeah, I think some of it is about just being louder, and you know, just do it, you know, you hear this thing all the time, just do it, and don't get me wrong, you know, I do believe people need to take action, but as I say, it's got to be right for you, and do it your way, and just because something works for someone else, doesn't mean it's going to work for you, so I think this whole ethos of just be louder, and you know, just put yourself in front of it, put yourself out there, and that's not actually necessarily the right way for a lot of people, and I think also, again, just sort of being told that there's certain language they should or shouldn't use, and it's like, but if it's something that comes naturally to you, I mean, I'm guilty of it myself, I know I find myself putting stuff out, thinking oh, that's a sentence that AI would use, I can't use it, you know, I say, in all honesty, a lot, and you see that now as a sentence, and it's like, oh, can I use that, but that's actually how I speak, so again, it's just having that confidence, say no, this is, this is me, this is how I do it, so actually, it's okay, and I think just not listening to those people that are, you know, if they're really opinionated on something, it's like, that's great that they've got that opinion, but are they actually the people that you are wanting to serve, wanting to reach out to anyway, it could be that they're not actually your person, so it's just being really careful of who you're listening to, I guess. MARK That, again, I would agree with that wholeheartedly, being careful who you listen to, I think, again, with this kind of, this sort of bubbling anger that's been happening in my head over the weekend, I'm very mindful that the world feels very polarised, there's, there's sort of one side, and there's another, and whereas I like to think historically, we would be open to a conversation, and as you say, sort of respecting other people's opinions, listening to, and if we don't agree, that's fine, but at least you've had the opportunity to listen and learn. That, that pause and that patience and that, I suppose, generosity to the other person, it seems much smaller, there's much less of that happening at the moment. NICKY Absolutely, definitely, and I'm, yeah, I'm seeing that everywhere, it's almost like, right, this is my opinion, it's almost, it's fact, I'm not going to listen to anything else, and, and I think if we're not careful, we're going to get to a point where it's like everyone's just trying to mould everyone into a single type of person, and, you know, it's like we all have our individual quirks, and, you know, if, if we were all the same, I mean, how boring would the world be, apart from but I think, yeah, there's definitely this, people pushing and pushing their opinion onto others, without taking in any opinions of, of other, you know, the other side of the, of the argument, or sort of listening to and going, oh, actually, yeah, I can see, I can see that point, or, you know, it seems to just be, no, I'm not listening, I'm right, you're wrong, that's it, and, and I think there is, yeah, there is no discussions anymore, you know, you can agree to disagree, it's okay to have differing opinions from someone, but I just think it feels that that's not so much the case, and if you slightly put a foot wrong, you know, and again, this is what I'm seeing with clients, or not wanting to put stuff out there, or not sure how to do it, because someone's going to pick them up on it and say, no, you're, you're wrong, how dare you say that, you know, why, why haven't you learned this, and put it out there correctly, and we're constantly trying to pre-empt what people might say, and what people might do, and, and I think, actually, no, it's okay to have your opinion, but it's also really important within that, that if someone does pick you up on it, that you can go, okay, thanks for that, I'll go and look into that, and make sure that I, I learn on that, or actually, can we both sort of be in this world together with our differing opinions, and actually, that's fine in itself as well, and I think that's really important that that's not lost, and I think, and I know that, obviously, hearing you as well, I know we're not alone in this, it is everywhere, there's a lot of frustration about it, and the online space is, is becoming noisier in these, in these opinions, and I think if we're not careful, we'll get to a point where the only people we're hearing are those who are shouting loudest, and that's not necessarily, you know, that's not conducive to the world, and also, it's not helpful for, for those of us, you know, I, I openly admit, I'm a, you know, I'm a quieter person, I'm not someone who's going to be loud and abrasive, I'm, you know, always told that I have that calming influence, but it doesn't mean that I can't be out there being visible, be doing stuff and helping people, but it's just that acceptance that people will do things in different ways, and it's really important that we do things in different ways as well, it's not one size fits all. MARK Which, I mean, there's, there's an awful lot of things I could sort of pick out of what you've just said there, let's not go down the kind of, the echo chamber of social media, the whole AI thing, although those are sort of valid conversations, but to come back to that point of, I suppose, sort of self-censorship, where we're afraid to voice our opinion, we're afraid to stand out in case someone knocks us back down again. Tell me more about how you help people embrace that fear and almost overpower it with the more important needs. NICKY Yeah, I think, I think, as I say, it's very easy for people to get lost, and that's probably where they are when they come to me at that point of, oh, I've tried everything, I don't really know, I can't, you know, I don't really know what I want anymore, so I would take them right, right, right back, let's go back to basics, let's go back to how did, how did your business come about, why did you start it in the first place, and really bring them back to that, and it's really fascinating the number of conversations you can have with people where they go, oh yeah, oh, I'd forgotten about that, yeah, that's what, and actually giving them that opportunity to really step right back out of it and, you know, remove, remove that noise, remove everything going on around them and really focus on that, and then obviously look at where they are and say, okay, so are you, are you sort of following that, that path that you want, are you on the right track, or have you gone off track, and the important thing in what I do at this point is recognising if they want to be going down that track, that is fine, we can continue down that, but have they gone down that way, and then, you know, completely veered off and lost their, sort of, how, why they started in the first place, lost those values, lost those, the story of what they want to be doing and, and how it came about in the first place, so it's really getting them literally to go back to basics, I think when you start a business, especially if it, you know, it takes off, you have some success and money's coming in, and then it's like suddenly, okay, I need to focus on the running of the business, I keep, you know, let's keep it going, and very quickly veer off and haven't actually had time to look back on the basics, look back at, right, okay, where, where am I, what am I doing this for, and, and how am I going to achieve that, so it really is giving them that opportunity to come into themselves, and, you know, going back to what I was saying at the beginning, giving them that chance to actually find, find themselves within, within this, and work out, right, how do I want this business to work for me, and is this, is this working in the way that's, that's right for me, you know, I could tell them to do so many different strategies that they could follow, but this is about, it's got to be right for them, because you can say whatever, you know, whatever, you know, just go and put yourself out there, go and be more visible, go and shout out more about it, but if that's not aligned to who they are, they're just not going to do it, and while I'm doing this work, obviously, mainly sort of initially, I tend to focus on the business, I'm also working with them as an individual, and sort of listening to their stories, listening to what they're saying, and within that, I can then unpick that side of it, and work out, okay, how is going to be the right way for them, you know, are there these, these little stories that keep coming up, and they then become the excuses, the barriers of not taking that action, so it, it is literally just breaking it down, and most of the time, people look at, oh, that's so straightforward, that's so simple, why haven't I seen that, but that's the point, when you're in it, when you're working in it, and I'm guilty of it myself in my own business, you know, when you're in it, day in, day out, it's very difficult to jump out and go, right, okay, where am I, what do I need to do, and I think just having that extra pair of eyes that can look at things objectively, and then listen, and hear, right, what is actually going on here, so yeah, most of the time, even though I'm working with more established business owners, we're going back, we're going back to basics, we're going back to the start, and making sure that those foundations are there, because a lot of the time, there's something, a massive gap in that point there, so, and it's just building from that. MARK Thank you, and just, I'm wondering, are there any, I mean, again, rather than sort of get down the sort of the AI, the social media, etc, that, that out, that noise, I don't want to go too broadly, but within the, within the journey, like you say, you start this wonderful vision, which feels personal, feel connected to, and then somewhere along the line, just through the day-to-day busyness, you, you shift away from that kind of that red thread. Can you give an example of one or two very common distractions that people kind of, you know, within that kind of those mid-stages of business? NICKY Yeah, I think, I mean, a classic, classic example is, you know, and it's great, people go out, they'll go out networking, they'll meet other people, they'll speak to other business owners, which I think is really, really, really important to have that community around you, and have those people around you, but then there'll be a conversation they'll have, and they'll say, you know, oh, I'm, you know, if I'm, I'm struggling with keeping, keeping track of my, my custom customers, and, you know, the people coming in, and they, they want, they want to book with me, and I'm not sure how to keep in, you know, keep on top of it, and I'm sort of losing, you know, where they all are, and so someone will say, oh, what you need to do is add this booking system to your website, and get your website, you know, doing this, that, and the other, and they come back, and they go, right, okay, so I need to, I need to build my website, I need to make sure that it can do all these things, all singing and dancing, and I can't do anything until I've done the website, then the website becomes this massive distraction, and actually, all they needed to do was simply just set up a booking system that could be completely independent, that you can send out to your clients, and that will sort of pull it all in, and I think it's, it's sort of recognising where you are, and I think another really classic thing is the comparison piece as well, of, again, speaking to someone who, so they may have sort of five or 10 staff, and they're, stood there basically saying, oh, it's just been such, it's such a nightmare at the moment, you know, I've got HR issues, and I've got people, you know, I don't know how to keep on top of this, and the staff are causing this, that, and the other, just at the point where, like, quite a few of my clients are at the point where they want to take on staff, or they've just got a couple of staff and wanting to grow, and then at that point, they're having that conversation with someone, and it completely puts them off wanting to, wanting to do that, and take that next, next step, and it's like, but this is, it's good to have that information, because it's an, it's an awareness piece, it's actually right, okay, you know, you know, you can't grow a business without there being something, you know, you've got to learn something, but it is going to be, there's going to be more things to juggle within that, but you can create the systems to allow that, and I think it is very much those conversations with other people that probably aren't at the same stage as, as you, and it's sort of taking, taking that on, and going, well, if they said that, then I can't do that, then I'm just going to almost avoid it, and it's always trying to look for the, sort of the simplest thing, they're like, well, I'll just stay where I am, it's like, that's not what you want, that's not the answer to, you know, to this, you know, you want to grow, and there is, you know, there's always going to be that unsure area that you're stepping into, you're doing something new, it's going to feel a little bit scary, you know, that's where, you know, the fear does come in, it's something new, it's something you don't know about, and it's recognising that actually that's a good, you know, it's a good thing to feel, because it shows that you're sort of stretching yourself, but it's because you're doing something new. I think, and I know we spoke about this the other day, it's that recognition of, is that thing that's scaring me, is it because it's not right for me, or is it just because it's something new, and it's learning to recognise that as, as you're going along, and that, again, where that, that piece of going back to those basics, and really knowing, right, what are my goals, what are my values, what is my business that I am growing, is this next step that I'm taking taking me towards that point, yes or no, if it is, okay, it's just the fear, it's just something new, if it's not, yeah, I need to address this and make sure that I'm staying on track with where I am, and I think that comparison piece is the quickest way to fall off, fall off that, that path. MARK I'm so pleased you brought that line out again, the kind of, like you say, is it scaring me, because it's different than yours, it's scaring me because it's wrong for me. When you said that the other day, I was like, yes, that's the quote, that's the line I want in the show. But it's so true, because I think our brains love patterns, and when we see someone else's story, we see a pattern in that, we see something that we can copy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I love about what you're saying is, we need to sense check, is that pattern right for us? Because, because even though there's a story there, and we can see the outcome, and that might be an outcome that appeals in the kind of sort of loosest or most immediate sense, but you said the journey to get there, it might be the wrong route. So thank you for sharing both of those. Again, I mean, I'm in complete agreement, the comparison thing, like you say, you're comparing yourself to someone else's story, helpful, unhelpful, depends on, as you say, what that origin story of your own business and your own vision really is. So, okay, I'm going to really put you on the spot there, Nicky, what is your origin story? Come on, what's, what's, what drives you to do what you do? NICKY Um, I mean, a lot of this stems back to sort of my, my work on my belief in myself, I've, you know, I've spoken before about my, you know, I struggled in my teenage years, I struggled in that environment of school. And, you know, I had teachers telling me outright that I wasn't good enough, and that I would not amount to anything. And that, you know, I should basically not bother. So, there was an element of like, right, I need to, I need to sort of prove this to myself, but to other people, I think. And then, unfortunately, my early years in the corporate world, it sort of almost cemented that because I had similar messages coming through. And I think it's just where me myself, I am, I am naturally an introvert. I think I'm one of those people that's, I don't know what the actual people talk about extroverted introverts and introverted extroverts, you know, I think I definitely have a mix. But it depends on what space I'm in, you know, and I think that's the same for anybody, if you're in a comfortable space, you're going to feel more extroverted than, you know, if you're not, but I was in this corporate world where basically, we were doing the what was then the Myers-Briggs personality tests. And we had a team building day where we all did these tests. And at the end of the day, they brought us back together and said, right, what where, what is your personality? And they did a chart on the wall with the four quadrants, and basically said, this is our ideal person. And I was the complete opposite of that. The straightaway, I was like, right, I don't belong here. And there was many occasions where, yeah, I was, I was brought down. And I was told I was too quiet. And I wasn't, you know, contributing enough. And there's all these things. And, you know, as you know, the more you're told these things, it just, it goes in. And you really, really believe, okay, it must be me, it must be me. And, but I always had this, always wanted to have my own business, I always knew that was something I wanted to do. And I sort of wanted to find a way to do that. And I think the more these things were happening to me, I was like, actually, I can help other people along the way. And I think that's why now I'm, I'm so passionate about, you know, helping those people who may feel a bit quieter, who may feel like they don't necessarily have a space, because everyone else is louder in that place. And, you know, how can they make themselves successful if they don't want to be that, that loud, dancy, you know, person who just bounces into the room. And, you know, and I think for me, there's a, you know, there's a much, much bigger piece here in that I just want people to really believe in themselves to find those superpowers that they do have, and maybe don't believe they have, you know, it is, it is all in there. And I think, again, I can have conversations with people and they're like, what you want about it's already in there. And it's like, because I was the same, I was very much to say, I was like, Oh, you know, I've been told it's not that I'm not gonna, you know, and when I work with people, and something happens, and you know, that they achieve the thing, or, you know, they've suddenly have this switch of belief in them. And then they do, they'll turn around and go, Oh, it was there all along. And the fact also, like, they'll thank me, and I'm like, I've not done it. I've not done the work, they've done that. I've just been there to hold a hand here and there and guide them. But I think it's my biggest mission is about people really having that self-confidence, that self-belief, that they can do it. And they don't need to do it in a really dramatic, loud way, just taking the steps, doing it the way that suits them. And, you know, an example for me was very much doing my event, you know, for me, it was always something that someone else does. So, I would turn up to events, and I would just be in the room, and I would sit there thinking, you know, I think I could do that. But that story, again, was like, but no, because you've been told otherwise, you're not, you're not the person that would stand at the front doing that. So, it's just really, I want to help as many people as possible to see that and to build what they want. And to be authentic to themselves, you know, as I say, your business, your way is about finding what works for you and still creating that. And also, for them to understand what is, what is their way, what is their business. Some people may want just, you know, just to work for themselves and have their own business. And just, you know, it's tick on that some people may want to grow the next, you know, multinational empire. And that's fine. And I think, again, helping people to recognise what is, what is for them, and be content with that, you know, that just because one person wants something doesn't make you more or less, because you want something else. You know, and I think, yeah, it's just helping people to get what they, what they want from it. But, but yeah, so there is, there's a much bigger piece in all of this. But as I say, my, my sort of, my own personal background has a lot, you know, I've had to do a lot of work, and it is still ongoing. And I think that's something else that I really want people to understand is it's not a one and done. It's not a right, I'm just going to do this work on me, it's going to be a magic, you know, it's going to suddenly all turn around, and it's all going to be wonderful and magical. And you know, it is a continuous process. But the fact is, once you've got those tools there that you can use, you know, I will openly admit, you know, I, you know, I do struggle with my mental health. And I do have times where I may feel like I'm possibly going backwards. But the fact is, is that I can move myself on from that I can recognise it, I can use the tools and I can move forward. And I think that is, that's the most important message is that people realise that is, it's a continuous process. And it's, you know, you can sort of help yourself through that. But yeah, you probably will need some support along the way. And, you know, if I can help as many people as possible, sort of pick them up and give them that, that belief that they can actually do the thing they want to do and not stay stuck in a job that they don't really want to have, or, you know, just building something that isn't really the business that they want, but it's fulfilling, you know, it's, it's providing them with income at the end of the day is what it usually comes to, but actually, it's not really what they want to be doing. Yeah. MARK Thank you. Thank you for being so generous for your own story there as well, Nicky, I do appreciate that. And it's a lovely, I think it's quite common for, particularly in the coaching world as well, if you are someone who wants to see other people succeed, it's because at some point in your own journey, you've had that sort of conversation with yourself as well. And knowing, knowing there is another side to that sort of dialogue or that sort of story that you've been telling yourself or other people told you when you were, when you were younger. It becomes important for us, I'm quite similar, as you know, it becomes important for us to help other people see beyond the story that they've kind of lived with for whatever reason or for how long. You touched on your event, you didn't give it a name, and I believe there's another one coming up. So, this is Empowered Live. NICKY Yes, it is. MARK And you've got your third Empowered Live coming up. I have. So, in November, tell us about Empowered Live. NICKY So Empowered Live is, I mean, it's exactly what I was talking about earlier. It's an opportunity for people to come and spend the day working on their business, having that space to really, you know, get clear on what their business entails. But it's a mix of the practical strategy of your business and, you know, where you want it to go and the steps you can take with that. But there's also a mindset piece within that and really working on right what is it because I do believe people that come in that room and they'll say this is where I want to be and if they're not there yet there is an underlying reason behind that and it is usually a mindset thing of you know they're stopping themselves somewhere so there's an opportunity to also reflect on that and work out right what am I actually holding myself back is there actually a reason that I'm not doing this and sort of working through that so it's a really practical hands-on day you know we do work in the room it's not it's not one of these events where you're just sort of talked at all day it's you know you will do work in the room you will come away my you know one of my key things of the outcome of the day is I want everybody to step out that room knowing exactly what their next step is and what they can do you know they have an opportunity to obviously talk to me throughout the day and all the other business owners that are there there's people to to talk to to share ideas again sort of offload and then realise oh I'm not the only one that you know feels that like that that way and the conversations that come out of that room and the conversations they have between themselves it's it's oh I just love it it's amazing and yeah so there is another one coming up on the 18th of November so awesome that's uh where we're at would that be um so it's at the Cotswold Hotel and Spa in Chipping Norton um so up near the golf club in Chipping Norton um and it's yeah all day from 10 till half four so it's a real opportunity yeah to get stuck in and remove those distractions you know get rid of all the external noise and really focus on right we're in the room looking at my business what can I do on that MARK Fantastic and it is like you said it is so important going back to the very first thing you were saying in our conversation if you're feeling lost giving yourself permission to have that time to reconnect is probably the most important first step you can do just touching on what you were saying about sort of you know the sort of balance of mindset and then strategy so you're thinking about where you are and doing something about big question which space do you prefer working in the mindset or the strategy NICKY I mean I think it I think it would always come down to mindset but then I do believe that you know even if I put out that I'm working on some of my strategy and you know that's the that I advertise people or people think they're coming to me about 90 percent of everything that they do is actually mindset you know they know what they need to do really that anyone can create them a plan you know it's because that's what a strategy is it's just giving them a plan of action what are the next steps so and I think it is especially when people you know there are people who genuinely think right I just need to know what to do if you just tell me what to do I can do it but then you then start sort of working through that and there's you know you hear well in essence excuses because that's that is what they're doing but actually I hear it for what it is and work through actually this there's an underlying reason behind this there is be it you know usually a fear of what it is that they want to do or this perceived idea of what they think they need to need to do and how they need to show up and I think that side of it of that realisation of okay no I can do this and you see that that growth in confidence um you know because that's something else I always thought as well again I think because of what I was told that you were either born with confidence or not so I truly believe that I wouldn't ever have it because I didn't have it and if someone's born with it then it's you know they've got it brilliant lucky them um and to for me to learn that was a massive piece and I think that's something that again I will pass on to people that actually you build your own confidence and it is through action so those tiny steps um yeah I think the mindset piece will always be the bit that when you see that it is like a transformation in their in their face the way they hold themselves the way they go about things it's it's so it is really fulfilling and you know sometimes I feel a bit sort of selfish feeling you know saying that I'm feeling that but actually that that is the thing that is you know when I know that I can help other people to do that yeah nothing really beats that moment MARK Yeah I'd say selfish is completely the opposite word isn't it really so yeah it's that most selfless thing surely of helping people NICKY Yeah I think it is that sort of that that thought of oh it's making me it's almost digging me up and making me feel good about myself and it's like that's a bit and that's a lot of work that I've had to do on myself so MARK Yeah I get that but it's I mean again I've said this a few times it's that kind of sort of punching the air under the chair like you say when they have that moment you're like yes that they can see it I've seen it all along because it's always easier yeah outside looking at someone else but when they see it for themselves and it's just like hurrah NICKY Yeah and I think it's having that patience on like well on our side and the work that we do but having that patience of right I know they're gonna see it they're gonna see it it's just gonna take them a little bit more you know and it's like so yeah keeping that going to the point where they then have that moment of oh I can do it I've done it you know I think that's MARK Yeah that's a good part just to kind of I suppose dig into the that kind of conversation so you're with somebody and they're exploring again what it is they need to pull themselves back to that sort of thread that core directional or non-directional so as a coach do you just give them the space to find this for themselves or do you actually poke and prod and make suggestions what's your preference NICKY It really depends again this comes down to the person um you know I will have gone back and sort of I a key part of initially working with someone I want to know about them want to know about what they want to do their business and everything so I think it really does depend on that individual as to you know but if I can if I can see it if I can see I guess you know we can go in circles and it can become a bit cyclical then it's like okay we need to possibly start prodding a little bit more here um you know if I can see that they're on on the cusp but I think it does depend on the person because sometimes I think they almost need um almost that sort of confidence boost in realising that they've found it themselves as well and for them to come up with it you know you'll be you'll be talking to them and they'll just come out with it and it's like you know it's on the tip of my tongue and it's like I could just say it here but actually I want them to say it I want them to come out with it because that's for them is so much more transformative and to know that they you know it that comes back to what I was saying it was there all along it is in um you know I don't need to I don't need to push them so yeah I it very much depends on the situation as to whether I will sort of push it through them or allow them that space to really yeah come up with it themselves. MARK Sure thing and again thinking about I mean yeah as I say you very generously shared your story you sort of told us that a lot of where you've had those kind of hesitations or you sort of held yourself back are through the things that either you were told or the situations you found yourself in that just simply weren't right for you yeah how deep do you go with your own clients in terms of those backstories again those you know the sort of the history? NICKY Um well I so I do have um a lot of different sort of tools in my toolkit that I can use um I am an NLP practitioner so you know I can work at that subconscious level which you know makes such a difference so I will with those people if we're going that deep you know I will go back and find that root cause and work from that to then sort of change those stories and help to you know reprogram how they how they're dealing with those things so um yeah it really it really does depend um on what they're working with me on obviously um but yeah I do I do have that sort of yeah I am able to sort of go back into that deeper work and really help um you know I had one client who I mean they were in their in their 50s and had had this issue that had been with them for life you know from they said from teenage lives and after one session they said it was completely gone it just like that whole everything they've lived their life on has completely transformed and they just felt like a weight completely lifted so yeah there is there is that opportunity there obviously and as you know people need to be open to that so I'm not going to push that on to someone straight away if it's not if it's not right for them but if people are open to it the stuff that you know the difference it can make the stuff I can do is incredible um but uh yeah so it really does um depend on that person but um yeah if they're coming to me with that open mind of actually I just want this you know I I really will do anything to get this sorted then brilliant I can go straight in and you know we can we can make changes there and then but uh but yeah I think I say this it all comes down to just really knowing that individual and knowing you know what's right for them and yeah just listening I spend so much time listening and I think that again comes down to I think I said to you before that thing about actually being that quieter person in the room that's the skill set that I've actually learned and something that I will make other people aware of that actually being the quieter person in the room allows you to really listen to really take it in and really sort of gather all the information rather than just jumping straight in MARK Fabulous yeah absolutely agree and we've talked about Empowered Live and something you were saying earlier about sort of you know the importance of bringing people together again this is something else that you do very well in a couple of different um ways or sort of different sort of guises or events so just very quickly before we wrap up you've got essentially two kind of networking or co-working events that you've started so tell us a little bit about those both yes I should say for the international audience he says boasting um yeah this is Oxfordshire yes everyone's welcome but sorry carry on yeah NICKY Yeah so um yes obviously I have Empowered Live which is the day event um and then I also host a co-working event um in so yeah in West Oxfordshire that's every last Monday of the month and we all come together it's just in a local cafe really um but it's just creating that space again for small business owners who normally would work by themselves to come together and you know either share if some people will come along and have it with an issue that they want to share and try and problem solve other people just come and sit and work but yeah it's just an opportunity to come together um and yeah either sit and work or have a chat or you know I think it can become very lonely as a sole business owner and I think just provide that's what I wanted to do is provide that space I found I was going out you know for a change of scene I'll go out to a cafe and work somewhere so I think to know you can turn up and other people will be there working as well so you're not you know sometimes you can feel a bit self-conscious if you're there with your laptop and no one else is so it's just a very informal you know come along like I say the last Monday of the month um in that's in Shipton under Wychwood a little place near Burford which is lovely MARK Yes I've been there and it is like you say it's very conducive coming back to that sort of working on your business and feeling less lost just having that time away from the distractions of your home office or the kitchen or you know all the things that kind of surround you if you're working from home or it's really helpful definitely Nicky I think we shall leave it there it's been an absolute pleasure and thank you so much like I say for not only sharing your story but obviously the stories of those that you serve and again just bringing with us those kind of observations that you've seen around the importance of working on being less lost I guess so we will leave it thank you very much thank you everybody who has joined us today um again you can watch this back here or wherever you like to tune into your favourite sort of podcasts and so on the next episode of mind monkeys will be on I've forgotten it's the first second Friday in November I will put this up online it's not November it's October my mind has gone crazy but anyway all of that will share I will follow up with that but until then thank you once again Nicky thank you everybody's tuning in I hope you've enjoyed the show and if you do like subscribe follow all the usual things and remember those mind monkeys we can do whatever we can to kind of just quieten down remind them that the bananas are optional see you all soon thank you.